Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

jim

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Why is it that Orthopedic Physicians are CLUELESS when it comes to the healing properties of massage? Why is it that allopathic doctors in general RARELY think of the healing effects of massage? I am convinced that the pharmaceutical companies must play a huge part in keeping the world of medicine and the world of healing arts apart. There can be no other explanation.
The natural healing arts can supplant the need for much of the drugging that goes on in our society. In my practice, I have saved many people from unnecessary surgery. I have taught my clients how to use ice for pain, which can reduce or remove the need for drugs. Are people really naรฏve enough to think that physicians are just too stupid to understand the power of natural healing arts? there HAS to be a force in place that brainwashed med students from the beginning.
If you are a physician, I would love for you to weigh in on this. I am sure that the tactics are subtle. In the old days, the pharmaceutical companies had all kinds of goodies that they piled onto med students. I would love to hear from the inside how they are pulling the strings today.
We need to figure out ways to educate the medical community, and stop the wholesale abuse of patients who put themselves into their doctors' care with complete trust.
I do not say that all medications are bad - I AM SAYING THAT DRUG ABUSE IS RAMPANT โ€“ and it starts with our doctors over-prescribing.
If you want to continue this conversation, please contact me on my website. And please โ€“ if you feel that a doctor is medicating you unnecessarily, I would be happy to weigh in with my opinion. I AM NOT A DOCTOR AND CANNOT PRESCRIBE. I am a therapist with 25 years of massage experience, a degree in 1986 from a medical massage college in New York, and many additional years of experience in the health field, both personal and professional.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

I certainly think there's some of that, but there's also just a particular mindset that comes with a western scientific education that's still very reductionist, materialist, and in many ways dualist. As medicine becomes more integral, it will begin to, well, integrate more things that it was previously (to varying degrees) blind to.

So it's not just big pharma's greed, it's also a vulnerable mindset on the part of the physicians and other health care workers that makes them complicit. When that mindset changes, earnest doctors whose highest desire is to help people heal will be much harder to exploit.
 
jan rose kasmir said:
Why is it that Orthopedic Physicians are CLUELESS when it comes to the healing properties of massage? Why is it that allopathic doctors in general RARELY think of the healing effects of massage? I am convinced that the pharmaceutical companies must play a huge part in keeping the world of medicine and the world of healing arts apart. There can be no other explanation.



I do not say that all medications are bad - I AM SAYING THAT DRUG ABUSE IS RAMPANT รขโ‚ฌโ€œ and it starts with our doctors over-prescribing.
If you want to continue this conversation, please contact me on my website

I am a therapist with 25 years of massage experience, a degree in 1986 from a medical massage college in New York, and many additional years of experience in the health field, both personal and professional.

Welcome to MassagePlanetL!

We'd love to hear more and continue the conversation HERE as this is the general purpose of this message board; to post and discuss topics that are relevant to professional massage therapists.

So what ideas do you already have to:
jan rose kasmir said:
We need to figure out ways to educate the medical community, and stop the wholesale abuse of patients who put themselves into their doctors' care with complete trust.
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Topic review - Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools






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EgoMagickian






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jan rose kasmir wrote:EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.When I read this, I felt irritated thinking that you have misread my motivation, and I'd like you to know that I was in no way trying to impress anybody with my wording. Also a bit angry thinking that you managed to turn something that seems to actually be about you into something about meรขโ‚ฌโ€making it about me getting "caught up in using words" and "trying to impress" instead of you just not understanding what I said. I would have preferred you to simply say, "I don't understand what you're trying to say, could you explain?""What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea?" Here's just one way: dualistic thinking underlies the entire mind/body split concept that makes it difficult for a person to accept many kinds of holistic treatment. It makes the current system you are complaining about make much more sense to a person. After reviewing this thread I also want to add that it's also patients that are complicit in the way things currently work. Many people want pills and prescriptions. Many are still heavily bought into a story that some of us, like you, are seeing through. I don't think that's just the fault of the sellers of that story; the buyer has to take some responsibility.

[quote="jan rose kasmir"]EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.[/quote]When I read this, I felt irritated thinking that you have misread my motivation, and I'd like you to know that I was in no way trying to impress anybody with my wording. Also a bit angry thinking that you managed to turn something that seems to actually be about you into something about meรขโ‚ฌโ€making it about me getting "caught up in using words" and "trying to impress" instead of you just not understanding what I said. I would have preferred you to simply say, "I don't understand what you're trying to say, could you explain?""What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea?" Here's just one way: dualistic thinking underlies the entire mind/body split concept that makes it difficult for a person to accept many kinds of holistic treatment. It makes the current system you are complaining about make much more sense to a person. After reviewing this thread I also want to add that it's also patients that are complicit in the way things currently work. Many people want pills and prescriptions. Many are still heavily bought into a story that some of us, like you, are seeing through. I don't think that's just the fault of the sellers of that story; the buyer has to take some responsibility.











Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:36 pm














GreenDragonfly






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maestra wrote:Atta girl Pueppi!

[quote="maestra"]Atta girl Pueppi! :smt023[/quote] :smt038 :iagree:











Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:49 pm














maestra






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Atta girl Pueppi!

Atta girl Pueppi! :smt023











Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:50 pm














mtnlionz






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Really well stated, pueppi.

Really well stated, pueppi.











Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:53 am














pueppi






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jan rose kasmir wrote:Why is it that Orthopedic Physicians are CLUELESS when it comes to the healing properties of massage? Why is it that allopathic doctors in general RARELY think of the healing effects of massage? I am convinced that the pharmaceutical companies must play a huge part in keeping the world of medicine and the world of healing arts apart. There can be no other explanation.I've been in practice for 19 years now and I only mention my years in practice to let you know that this comment will not be coming from a baby in the field. I have orthopedics, neurologists, a psychiatrist, a psychologist and a physiatrist who refer to me. I have been able to get good feeback from allopathic physicians to other patients I have worked on.It is true that many in allopathic medicine don't understand the healing properties of our field, but at the same time, if I am stuck in a car, in a ditch, in the mud, on a rainy night and the jaws of life are at my door... I certainly am not going to ask to see the nearest MT.There is a time and place for everything. Part of working with the allopathic community (who for the most part thinks differently than the holistic community) is how we educate them. Seriously, it's a bit difficult for an MD to refer to a crystal waving 60's child (and we have a lot of those in our profession) than to refer to someone who looks and acts a little more, shall we say... stable. However, if that same person comes across in a way the MD can better wrap their head around, things can and will change. I am ok with how things stand right now. We have a system where we can choose on any given day who we want to see for an ailment. Educate where you can, but at the same time, be mindful not to tip the boat in a way where the MD's (and the giant of the AMA) want to take over your right to provide work in the way you see fit. At least, that's my opinion.03-01-11 edit for a weird hash mark within and parenthesis missing in text.

[quote="jan rose kasmir"]Why is it that Orthopedic Physicians are CLUELESS when it comes to the healing properties of massage? Why is it that allopathic doctors in general RARELY think of the healing effects of massage? I am convinced that the pharmaceutical companies must play a huge part in keeping the world of medicine and the world of healing arts apart. There can be no other explanation.[/quote]I've been in practice for 19 years now and I only mention my years in practice to let you know that this comment will not be coming from a baby in the field. I have orthopedics, neurologists, a psychiatrist, a psychologist and a physiatrist who refer to me. I have been able to get good feeback from allopathic physicians to other patients I have worked on.It is true that many in allopathic medicine don't understand the healing properties of our field, but at the same time, if I am stuck in a car, in a ditch, in the mud, on a rainy night and the jaws of life are at my door... I certainly am not going to ask to see the nearest MT.There is a time and place for everything. Part of working with the allopathic community (who for the most part thinks differently than the holistic community) is how we educate them. Seriously, it's a bit difficult for an MD to refer to a crystal waving 60's child [i](and we have a lot of those in our profession)[/i] than to refer to someone who looks and acts a little more, shall we say... [b]stable[/b]. However, if that same person comes across in a way the MD can better wrap their head around, things can and will change. I am ok with how things stand right now. We have a system where we can choose on any given day who we want to see for an ailment. Educate where you can, but at the same time, be mindful not to tip the boat in a way where the MD's (and the giant of the AMA) want to take over your right to provide work in the way you see fit. At least, that's my opinion.03-01-11 edit for a weird hash mark within and parenthesis missing in text.











Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:45 am














Taoist






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Quote:I feel as though I have missed something in this thread.You are NOT alone..

[quote]I feel as though I have missed something in this thread.[/quote]You are NOT alone..











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:01 pm














GreenDragonfly






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jan rose kasmir wrote:I love your flow, but , I do not think it works in my social settingl. Sounds very utopian.... hmmmmm utiopia.As for "It doesn't matter what we do, but how and why we do it." tell that to my creditors..... if only it was a gentler world.....There was a time, before the birth of my daughter, that I was convenient with "reality". I know am stuck with the collective consciousness. I feel as though I have missed something in this thread.Weren't we talking about pharmas influence on medical schools and what we as massage therapists can do to educate ourselves and our clients to serve their needs?Earlier in the thread Jan, you called out Ego to speak in a more forthcoming way and yet I am lost here with your post as you seem to have more interest in talking about people's sig lines.

[quote="jan rose kasmir"]I love your flow, but , I do not think it works in my social settingl. Sounds very utopian.... hmmmmm utiopia.As for "It doesn't matter what we do, but how and why we do it." tell that to my creditors..... if only it was a gentler world.....There was a time, before the birth of my daughter, that I was convenient with "reality". I know am stuck with the collective consciousness.[/quote] :smt017 I feel as though I have missed something in this thread.Weren't we talking about pharmas influence on medical schools and what we as massage therapists can do to educate ourselves and our clients to serve their needs?Earlier in the thread Jan, you called out Ego to speak in a more forthcoming way and yet I am lost here with your post as you seem to have more interest in talking about people's sig lines.











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:32 pm














jan rose kasmir






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I love your flow, but , I do not think it works in my social settingl. Sounds very utopian.... hmmmmm utiopia.As for "It doesn't matter what we do, but how and why we do it." tell that to my creditors..... if only it was a gentler world.....There was a time, before the birth of my daughter, that I was convenient with "reality". I know am stuck with the collective consciousness.

I love your flow, but , I do not think it works in my social settingl. Sounds very utopian.... hmmmmm utiopia.As for "It doesn't matter what we do, but how and why we do it." tell that to my creditors..... if only it was a gentler world.....There was a time, before the birth of my daughter, that I was convenient with "reality". I know am stuck with the collective consciousness.











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:44 pm














Taoist






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jan rose kasmir wrote:Recently, I had a local massage business change their name on the internet to MY NAME รขโ‚ฌโ€œ Hilton Head Massage Therapy. When I confronted them รขโ‚ฌโ€œ they changed their name to Massage Therapy Hilton Head. No wonder I feel so prickly.Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. You have every right to feel prickly about someone trying to take your business name but maybe you can secretly be flattered by it

[quote="jan rose kasmir"]Recently, I had a local massage business change their name on the internet to MY NAME รขโ‚ฌโ€œ Hilton Head Massage Therapy. When I confronted them รขโ‚ฌโ€œ they changed their name to Massage Therapy Hilton Head. No wonder I feel so prickly.[/quote]Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. You have every right to feel prickly about someone trying to take your business name but maybe you can secretly be flattered by it :D











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:50 am














jan rose kasmir






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Thank you for the compliment on my website, Taoist. At the risk of being accused of pridefulness, I would invite you to share this clip from my experience in September with the Avalon Project -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQRUGBld ... re=related If you go on this site and click on the video clip, you will get a better feel for who I am. http://www.sixtiessurvivors.org/kasmir.htmlI think you would appreciate one of my mantra's - "There's got to be a Zen in there somewhere."While it is true that we have great power to manifest, I wanted to share that I am working in an extremely difficult market - Hilton Head Island, SC - I refer to it as the white bread capital of the United States.I have been in the New Age movement until, quite frankly, I was old age. I used to spend time at Viktoras Kulcinskas's Survival Foundation in Woodstock Valley, Conn - (Vik is called the Gdfather of Wheatgrass.") It was much simpler then.I have been a therapist for 25 years - before that I worked in counseling and designed and managed health food stores and restaurants.I devote a lot of time to community service , as I do believe one must give it away to keep it. My business motto is รขโ‚ฌล“Keep Your Karma Kleen.รขโ‚ฌโ€Œ Some days it all works, and some days it just does not.Recently, I had a local massage business change their name on the internet to MY NAME รขโ‚ฌโ€œ Hilton Head Massage Therapy. When I confronted them รขโ‚ฌโ€œ they changed their name to Massage Therapy Hilton Head. No wonder I feel so prickly.In the past, I have always tried to overcome my negative space by giving of myself รขโ‚ฌโ€œ usually through massage. My system works if one is a monk, but there are times when it is important to be nurtured.Not rehashing is good รขโ‚ฌโ€œ finding the Tao รขโ‚ฌโ€œ creating a springboard to a better place รขโ‚ฌโ€œ that takes it to the next level.As for Squash Blossom......I dunno????? Sorry you are feeling so bad about my post.You might want to give it a rest and re-visit at a later time. Perhaps you will have a clearer understanding of what I was trying to communicate.

Thank you for the compliment on my website, Taoist. At the risk of being accused of pridefulness, I would invite you to share this clip from my experience in September with the Avalon Project -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQRUGBldn_0&feature=related If you go on this site and click on the video clip, you will get a better feel for who I am. http://www.sixtiessurvivors.org/kasmir.htmlI think you would appreciate one of my mantra's - "There's got to be a Zen in there somewhere."While it is true that we have great power to manifest, I wanted to share that I am working in an extremely difficult market - Hilton Head Island, SC - I refer to it as the white bread capital of the United States.I have been in the New Age movement until, quite frankly, I was old age. I used to spend time at Viktoras Kulcinskas's Survival Foundation in Woodstock Valley, Conn - (Vik is called the Gdfather of Wheatgrass.") It was much simpler then.I have been a therapist for 25 years - before that I worked in counseling and designed and managed health food stores and restaurants.I devote a lot of time to community service , as I do believe one must give it away to keep it. My business motto is รขโ‚ฌล“Keep Your Karma Kleen.รขโ‚ฌโ€Œ Some days it all works, and some days it just does not.Recently, I had a local massage business change their name on the internet to MY NAME รขโ‚ฌโ€œ Hilton Head Massage Therapy. When I confronted them รขโ‚ฌโ€œ they changed their name to Massage Therapy Hilton Head. No wonder I feel so prickly.In the past, I have always tried to overcome my negative space by giving of myself รขโ‚ฌโ€œ usually through massage. My system works if one is a monk, but there are times when it is important to be nurtured.Not rehashing is good รขโ‚ฌโ€œ finding the Tao รขโ‚ฌโ€œ creating a springboard to a better place รขโ‚ฌโ€œ that takes it to the next level.As for Squash Blossom......I dunno????? Sorry you are feeling so bad about my post.You might want to give it a rest and re-visit at a later time. Perhaps you will have a clearer understanding of what I was trying to communicate.











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:29 am














jan rose kasmir






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Thank you Heidi - you are right - I have had a problem understanding how caps are taken - one of my vendors showed me that caps are powerful - I guess I forgot the lesson.Peace out.

Thank you Heidi - you are right - I have had a problem understanding how caps are taken - one of my vendors showed me that caps are powerful - I guess I forgot the lesson.Peace out.











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:27 am














Ding






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I think everybody needs to keep in mind that written word often comes across differently than intended (as opposed to spoken word, which has inflections and tone of voice to clue in the listener to the intent behind the words). Let's not turn this molehill into a mountain. Perhaps it was overstating to call Jan's post "nastiness" -- if you take out the all-caps statement and read an 'interested' tone into the "what were you trying to say", it comes across completely different, doesn't it?Deep breath, everybody!

I think everybody needs to keep in mind that written word often comes across differently than intended (as opposed to spoken word, which has inflections and tone of voice to clue in the listener to the intent behind the words). Let's not turn this molehill into a mountain. Perhaps it was overstating to call Jan's post "nastiness" -- if you take out the all-caps statement and read an 'interested' tone into the "what were you trying to say", it comes across completely different, doesn't it?Deep breath, everybody! :grin: :massage:











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:21 am














jan rose kasmir






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HUH?

HUH?











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:17 am














squash_blsm






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Not much of an apology to go after yet another person!If you are annoyed at things in your life best to deal with them and refrain from attacking others.Not off to a great start here.Hopefully you will find a way to be in open discussion with others without resorting to personal attacks.jan rose kasmir wrote:By the way, Squash Blossom - I think calling my post nasty is an overstatement.I would also like to point out that I do not hide behind a pseudonym, and if you Google my name, you will see my picture is an internatioal peace icon. And yes, even peace pilgrims have bad days.....It is clear to me that I need to connect with like-minded people - maybe this will be a place that can happen....maybe not.I know that I came at the post like a Taurus, but I was NOT out for blood. Just annoyed.

Not much of an apology to go after yet another person!If you are annoyed at things in your life best to deal with them and refrain from attacking others.Not off to a great start here.Hopefully you will find a way to be in open discussion with others without resorting to personal attacks.[quote="jan rose kasmir"]By the way, Squash Blossom - I think calling my post nasty is an overstatement.I would also like to point out that I do not hide behind a pseudonym, and if you Google my name, you will see my picture is an internatioal peace icon. And yes, even peace pilgrims have bad days.....It is clear to me that I need to connect with like-minded people - maybe this will be a place that can happen....maybe not.I know that I came at the post like a Taurus, but I was NOT out for blood. Just annoyed.[/quote]











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:29 am














Taoist






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It's possible that everyone over-reacted. We're human; it happens. For the most part, unless a post is very blatantly rude/condescending/ill-mannered or whatever, most people here do not mean to offend anyone. When differing opinions come together, fur always gets rubbed the wrong way. Regardless of that, the best we can do is respect each other and everyone's opinions and not continue to rehash a simple mistake.By the way... Welcome to MassagePlanetL! Your website is really beautiful- I like it!

It's possible that everyone over-reacted. We're human; it happens. For the most part, unless a post is very blatantly rude/condescending/ill-mannered or whatever, most people here do not mean to offend anyone. When differing opinions come together, fur [u]always[/u] gets rubbed the wrong way. Regardless of that, the best we can do is respect each other and everyone's opinions and not continue to rehash a simple mistake.By the way... Welcome to MassagePlanetL! :smt006 Your website is really beautiful- I like it!











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:20 am














jan rose kasmir






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By the way, Squash Blossom - I think calling my post nasty is an overstatement.I would also like to point out that I do not hide behind a pseudonym, and if you Google my name, you will see my picture is an internatioal peace icon. And yes, even peace pilgrims have bad days.....It is clear to me that I need to connect with like-minded people - maybe this will be a place that can happen....maybe not.I know that I came at the post like a Taurus, but I was NOT out for blood. Just annoyed.

By the way, Squash Blossom - I think calling my post nasty is an overstatement.I would also like to point out that I do not hide behind a pseudonym, and if you Google my name, you will see my picture is an internatioal peace icon. And yes, even peace pilgrims have bad days.....It is clear to me that I need to connect with like-minded people - maybe this will be a place that can happen....maybe not.I know that I came at the post like a Taurus, but I was NOT out for blood. Just annoyed.











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:15 am














jan rose kasmir






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Humble apologies to all.It was not my intention to put out so much negativity. Even though I was put off by the reply, I am absolutely sorry for framing it so negatively.I am working and living in a very isolated environment, and I can only ask that people try to hold off putting me on the chopping block. I will sincerely keep things positive. An important lesson learned.I will work on manifesting more positive energy.

Humble apologies to all.It was not my intention to put out so much negativity. Even though I was put off by the reply, I am absolutely sorry for framing it so negatively.I am working and living in a very isolated environment, and I can only ask that people try to hold off putting me on the chopping block. I will sincerely keep things positive. An important lesson learned.I will work on manifesting more positive energy.











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:07 am














moogie






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jan rose kasmir wrote:EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.I must say that I am very confused by this post? I had no problem following his reply to your post and do not understand why you have chosen to respond so negatively. Angie

[quote="jan rose kasmir"]EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.[/quote]I must say that I am very confused by this post? I had no problem following his reply to your post and do not understand why you have chosen to respond so negatively. Angie











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:16 am














squash_blsm






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Wow - such nastimess!I saw this as a simple reply to the discussion that YOU started. There were no big words...not any bigger than the ones YOU yourself used.This topic probably isn't appropriate to a bodyworkers site as you requested replys from MD's (there are none of those in our membership that I am aware of).I think that the replies you received were very polite.Is there something else going on here that you choose to "start a fight" with your very first post?jan rose kasmir wrote:EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.

Wow - such nastimess!I saw this as a simple reply to the discussion that YOU started. There were no big words...not any bigger than the ones YOU yourself used.This topic probably isn't appropriate to a bodyworkers site as you requested replys from MD's (there are none of those in our membership that I am aware of).I think that the replies you received were very polite.Is there something else going on here that you choose to "start a fight" with your very first post?[quote="jan rose kasmir"]EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.[/quote]











Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:03 am














jan rose kasmir






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Thank you for that, Dragonfly - laughter IS the best medicine. Norman Cousins brought himself back from the dead through laughter.There are many herbal potions and Oriental remedies that work magic. However, nothing heals like human touch.

Thank you for that, Dragonfly - laughter IS the best medicine. Norman Cousins brought himself back from the dead through laughter.There are many herbal potions and Oriental remedies that work magic. However, nothing heals like human touch.











Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:28 pm














jan rose kasmir






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EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.

EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.











Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:22 pm














GreenDragonfly






ย 
Post subject:ย 
Re: Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools
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jan rose kasmir wrote:Why is it that Orthopedic Physicians are CLUELESS when it comes to the healing properties of massage? Why is it that allopathic doctors in general RARELY think of the healing effects of massage? I am convinced that the pharmaceutical companies must play a huge part in keeping the world of medicine and the world of healing arts apart. There can be no other explanation.I do not say that all medications are bad - I AM SAYING THAT DRUG ABUSE IS RAMPANT รขโ‚ฌโ€œ and it starts with our doctors over-prescribing.If you want to continue this conversation, please contact me on my website I am a therapist with 25 years of massage experience, a degree in 1986 from a medical massage college in New York, and many additional years of experience in the health field, both personal and professional.Welcome to MassagePlanetL!We'd love to hear more and continue the conversation HERE as this is the general purpose of this message board; to post and discuss topics that are relevant to professional massage therapists. So what ideas do you already have to:jan rose kasmir wrote:We need to figure out ways to educate the medical community, and stop the wholesale abuse of patients who put themselves into their doctors' care with complete trust.

[quote="jan rose kasmir"]Why is it that Orthopedic Physicians are CLUELESS when it comes to the healing properties of massage? Why is it that allopathic doctors in general RARELY think of the healing effects of massage? I am convinced that the pharmaceutical companies must play a huge part in keeping the world of medicine and the world of healing arts apart. There can be no other explanation.I do not say that all medications are bad - I AM SAYING THAT DRUG ABUSE IS RAMPANT รขโ‚ฌโ€œ and it starts with our doctors over-prescribing.If you want to continue this conversation, please contact me on my website I am a therapist with 25 years of massage experience, a degree in 1986 from a medical massage college in New York, and many additional years of experience in the health field, both personal and professional.[/quote]Welcome to MassagePlanetL!We'd love to hear more and continue the conversation HERE as this is the general purpose of this message board; to post and discuss topics that are relevant to professional massage therapists. So what ideas do you already have to:[quote="jan rose kasmir"]We need to figure out ways to educate the medical community, and stop the wholesale abuse of patients who put themselves into their doctors' care with complete trust.











Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:12 pm














EgoMagickian






ย 
Post subject:ย 
Re: Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools
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I certainly think there's some of that, but there's also just a particular mindset that comes with a western scientific education that's still very reductionist, materialist, and in many ways dualist. As medicine becomes more integral, it will begin to, well, integrate more things that it was previously (to varying degrees) blind to. So it's not just big pharma's greed, it's also a vulnerable mindset on the part of the physicians and other health care workers that makes them complicit. When that mindset changes, earnest doctors whose highest desire is to help people heal will be much harder to exploit.

I certainly think there's some of that, but there's also just a particular mindset that comes with a western scientific education that's still very reductionist, materialist, and in many ways dualist. As medicine becomes more integral, it will begin to, well, integrate more things that it was previously (to varying degrees) blind to. So it's not just big pharma's greed, it's also a vulnerable mindset on the part of the physicians and other health care workers that makes them complicit. When that mindset changes, earnest doctors whose highest desire is to help people heal will be much harder to exploit.











Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:08 pm














jan rose kasmir






ย 
Post subject:ย 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools
ย 













Why is it that Orthopedic Physicians are CLUELESS when it comes to the healing properties of massage? Why is it that allopathic doctors in general RARELY think of the healing effects of massage? I am convinced that the pharmaceutical companies must play a huge part in keeping the world of medicine and the world of healing arts apart. There can be no other explanation.The natural healing arts can supplant the need for much of the drugging that goes on in our society. In my practice, I have saved many people from unnecessary surgery. I have taught my clients how to use ice for pain, which can reduce or remove the need for drugs. Are people really naุฃยฏve enough to think that physicians are just too stupid to understand the power of natural healing arts? there HAS to be a force in place that brainwashed med students from the beginning.If you are a physician, I would love for you to weigh in on this. I am sure that the tactics are subtle. In the old days, the pharmaceutical companies had all kinds of goodies that they piled onto med students. I would love to hear from the inside how they are pulling the strings today.We need to figure out ways to educate the medical community, and stop the wholesale abuse of patients who put themselves into their doctors' care with complete trust.I do not say that all medications are bad - I AM SAYING THAT DRUG ABUSE IS RAMPANT รขโ‚ฌโ€œ and it starts with our doctors over-prescribing.If you want to continue this conversation, please contact me on my website. And please รขโ‚ฌโ€œ if you feel that a doctor is medicating you unnecessarily, I would be happy to weigh in with my opinion. I AM NOT A DOCTOR AND CANNOT PRESCRIBE. I am a therapist with 25 years of massage experience, a degree in 1986 from a medical massage college in New York, and many additional years of experience in the health field, both personal and professional.

Why is it that Orthopedic Physicians are CLUELESS when it comes to the healing properties of massage? Why is it that allopathic doctors in general RARELY think of the healing effects of massage? I am convinced that the pharmaceutical companies must play a huge part in keeping the world of medicine and the world of healing arts apart. There can be no other explanation.The natural healing arts can supplant the need for much of the drugging that goes on in our society. In my practice, I have saved many people from unnecessary surgery. I have taught my clients how to use ice for pain, which can reduce or remove the need for drugs. Are people really naุฃยฏve enough to think that physicians are just too stupid to understand the power of natural healing arts? there HAS to be a force in place that brainwashed med students from the beginning.If you are a physician, I would love for you to weigh in on this. I am sure that the tactics are subtle. In the old days, the pharmaceutical companies had all kinds of goodies that they piled onto med students. I would love to hear from the inside how they are pulling the strings today.We need to figure out ways to educate the medical community, and stop the wholesale abuse of patients who put themselves into their doctors' care with complete trust.I do not say that all medications are bad - I AM SAYING THAT DRUG ABUSE IS RAMPANT รขโ‚ฌโ€œ and it starts with our doctors over-prescribing.If you want to continue this conversation, please contact me on my website. And please รขโ‚ฌโ€œ if you feel that a doctor is medicating you unnecessarily, I would be happy to weigh in with my opinion. I AM NOT A DOCTOR AND CANNOT PRESCRIBE. I am a therapist with 25 years of massage experience, a degree in 1986 from a medical massage college in New York, and many additional years of experience in the health field, both personal and professional.











Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:32 am


















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Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.
What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

Thank you for that, Dragonfly - laughter IS the best medicine. Norman Cousins brought himself back from the dead through laughter.
There are many herbal potions and Oriental remedies that work magic. However, nothing heals like human touch.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

Wow - such nastimess!
I saw this as a simple reply to the discussion that YOU started. There were no big words...not any bigger than the ones YOU yourself used.
This topic probably isn't appropriate to a bodyworkers site as you requested replys from MD's (there are none of those in our membership that I am aware of).
I think that the replies you received were very polite.

Is there something else going on here that you choose to "start a fight" with your very first post?

jan rose kasmir said:
EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.
What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

jan rose kasmir said:
EgoMan - I would like to suggest that you get caught up in using words to the detriment of any meaning.
What you said would be clear if you spoke in plain English. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO SAY????? What does dualistic thinking have to do with the manipulation of young medical students with curriculum that points to pills as panacea? Stop trying to impress your audience with big words, and try to communicate clearly. I am sure you have something to say. it is just lost on me.

I must say that I am very confused by this post? I had no problem following his reply to your post and do not understand why you have chosen to respond so negatively.

Angie
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

Humble apologies to all.
It was not my intention to put out so much negativity. Even though I was put off by the reply, I am absolutely sorry for framing it so negatively.
I am working and living in a very isolated environment, and I can only ask that people try to hold off putting me on the chopping block. I will sincerely keep things positive. An important lesson learned.
I will work on manifesting more positive energy.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

By the way, Squash Blossom - I think calling my post nasty is an overstatement.
I would also like to point out that I do not hide behind a pseudonym, and if you Google my name, you will see my picture is an internatioal peace icon. And yes, even peace pilgrims have bad days.....
It is clear to me that I need to connect with like-minded people - maybe this will be a place that can happen....maybe not.
I know that I came at the post like a Taurus, but I was NOT out for blood. Just annoyed.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

It's possible that everyone over-reacted. We're human; it happens. For the most part, unless a post is very blatantly rude/condescending/ill-mannered or whatever, most people here do not mean to offend anyone. When differing opinions come together, fur always gets rubbed the wrong way. Regardless of that, the best we can do is respect each other and everyone's opinions and not continue to rehash a simple mistake.

By the way... Welcome to MassagePlanetL! :smt006 Your website is really beautiful- I like it!
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

Not much of an apology to go after yet another person!
If you are annoyed at things in your life best to deal with them and refrain from attacking others.
Not off to a great start here.
Hopefully you will find a way to be in open discussion with others without resorting to personal attacks.

jan rose kasmir said:
By the way, Squash Blossom - I think calling my post nasty is an overstatement.
I would also like to point out that I do not hide behind a pseudonym, and if you Google my name, you will see my picture is an internatioal peace icon. And yes, even peace pilgrims have bad days.....
It is clear to me that I need to connect with like-minded people - maybe this will be a place that can happen....maybe not.
I know that I came at the post like a Taurus, but I was NOT out for blood. Just annoyed.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

I think everybody needs to keep in mind that written word often comes across differently than intended (as opposed to spoken word, which has inflections and tone of voice to clue in the listener to the intent behind the words).

Let's not turn this molehill into a mountain. Perhaps it was overstating to call Jan's post "nastiness" -- if you take out the all-caps statement and read an 'interested' tone into the "what were you trying to say", it comes across completely different, doesn't it?

Deep breath, everybody! :grin: :massage:
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

Thank you Heidi - you are right - I have had a problem understanding how caps are taken - one of my vendors showed me that caps are powerful - I guess I forgot the lesson.
Peace out.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

Thank you for the compliment on my website, Taoist.
At the risk of being accused of pridefulness, I would invite you to share this clip from my experience in September with the Avalon Project -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQRUGBldn_0&feature=related
If you go on this site and click on the video clip, you will get a better feel for who I am. http://www.sixtiessurvivors.org/kasmir.html

I think you would appreciate one of my mantra's - "There's got to be a Zen in there somewhere."
While it is true that we have great power to manifest, I wanted to share that I am working in an extremely difficult market - Hilton Head Island, SC - I refer to it as the white bread capital of the United States.
I have been in the New Age movement until, quite frankly, I was old age. I used to spend time at Viktoras Kulcinskas's Survival Foundation in Woodstock Valley, Conn - (Vik is called the Gdfather of Wheatgrass.") It was much simpler then.
I have been a therapist for 25 years - before that I worked in counseling and designed and managed health food stores and restaurants.
I devote a lot of time to community service , as I do believe one must give it away to keep it. My business motto is โ€œKeep Your Karma Kleen.โ€ Some days it all works, and some days it just does not.
Recently, I had a local massage business change their name on the internet to MY NAME โ€“ Hilton Head Massage Therapy. When I confronted them โ€“ they changed their name to Massage Therapy Hilton Head. No wonder I feel so prickly.
In the past, I have always tried to overcome my negative space by giving of myself โ€“ usually through massage. My system works if one is a monk, but there are times when it is important to be nurtured.
Not rehashing is good โ€“ finding the Tao โ€“ creating a springboard to a better place โ€“ that takes it to the next level.
As for Squash Blossom......I dunno????? Sorry you are feeling so bad about my post.You might want to give it a rest and re-visit at a later time. Perhaps you will have a clearer understanding of what I was trying to communicate.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

jan rose kasmir said:
Recently, I had a local massage business change their name on the internet to MY NAME โ€“ Hilton Head Massage Therapy. When I confronted them โ€“ they changed their name to Massage Therapy Hilton Head. No wonder I feel so prickly.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. You have every right to feel prickly about someone trying to take your business name but maybe you can secretly be flattered by it :D
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

I love your flow, but , I do not think it works in my social settingl. Sounds very utopian.... hmmmmm utiopia.
As for "It doesn't matter what we do, but how and why we do it." tell that to my creditors..... if only it was a gentler world.....
There was a time, before the birth of my daughter, that I was convenient with "reality". I know am stuck with the collective consciousness.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

jan rose kasmir said:
I love your flow, but , I do not think it works in my social settingl. Sounds very utopian.... hmmmmm utiopia.
As for "It doesn't matter what we do, but how and why we do it." tell that to my creditors..... if only it was a gentler world.....
There was a time, before the birth of my daughter, that I was convenient with "reality". I know am stuck with the collective consciousness.

:smt017
I feel as though I have missed something in this thread.

Weren't we talking about pharmas influence on medical schools and what we as massage therapists can do to educate ourselves and our clients to serve their needs?

Earlier in the thread Jan, you called out Ego to speak in a more forthcoming way and yet I am lost here with your post as you seem to have more interest in talking about people's sig lines.
 
Pharmaceutical Companies Control Medical Schools

jan rose kasmir said:
Why is it that Orthopedic Physicians are CLUELESS when it comes to the healing properties of massage? Why is it that allopathic doctors in general RARELY think of the healing effects of massage? I am convinced that the pharmaceutical companies must play a huge part in keeping the world of medicine and the world of healing arts apart. There can be no other explanation.

I've been in practice for 19 years now and I only mention my years in practice to let you know that this comment will not be coming from a baby in the field.

I have orthopedics, neurologists, a psychiatrist, a psychologist and a physiatrist who refer to me. I have been able to get good feeback from allopathic physicians to other patients I have worked on.

It is true that many in allopathic medicine don't understand the healing properties of our field, but at the same time, if I am stuck in a car, in a ditch, in the mud, on a rainy night and the jaws of life are at my door... I certainly am not going to ask to see the nearest MT.

There is a time and place for everything.

Part of working with the allopathic community (who for the most part thinks differently than the holistic community) is how we educate them. Seriously, it's a bit difficult for an MD to refer to a crystal waving 60's child (and we have a lot of those in our profession) than to refer to someone who looks and acts a little more, shall we say... stable. However, if that same person comes across in a way the MD can better wrap their head around, things can and will change.

I am ok with how things stand right now. We have a system where we can choose on any given day who we want to see for an ailment. Educate where you can, but at the same time, be mindful not to tip the boat in a way where the MD's (and the giant of the AMA) want to take over your right to provide work in the way you see fit. At least, that's my opinion.



03-01-11 edit for a weird hash mark within and parenthesis missing in text.
 
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    THURSDAY at ๐Š ๐’๐๐€: ADA, VICKY, KELLY & CINDY. Unit B6-4227 Sheppard Ave East Scarborough, ON (Just East of Midland Ave) โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฎ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ ADA is 23, 5โ€™4โ€ and 120 Lbs, sweet and sexy with a nice 36C bust and great services. VICKY is 21, Korean, 5โ€™2โ€ & 100 Lbs, with a cute pretty face, good service, & nice 34B pillows to comfort you. KELLY stands 5โ€™3โ€ & weighs 110 Lbs, with nice 34D's
  14. Withme_Spa:
    ๐Ÿ’•๐Ÿ’ฅ at 4386 Sheppard Avenue east ๐Ÿ’ข๐Ÿ’˜๐Ÿ’žThursday โฃ ๐Ÿ’‹ Ruby,โฃ๐Ÿ’‹ medium height and sexy build with shapely legs and ass. friendly, does a very relaxing treatment and wonderful finish... comfortable treatment โค๐Ÿ’‹ Lucy,๐Ÿ’ฅ beautiful, dark hair to shoulder, tall and slim but busty, and does very relaxing treatment with over the top finish. ๐Ÿ’ž Jessica, ๐Ÿ’–average height, slim build, very pretty, does a very personalized treatment that you are sure to love... โค ๐Ÿ’‹ ๐Ÿ”‹ 416 297-7488๐Ÿ”‹
  15. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅ Zoe - ๐Ÿ”ฅStunning Tall Taiwanese Service Queen with Endless Passion and Sensuality who Wa
  16. lemon_tree:
    ๐Ÿ’›๐Ÿ’ฅ a discreet entrance at 4155 Sheppard Avenue east ๐Ÿ’žโฃ๐Ÿ’‹Thursday, โฃโฃ Cici... ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹ small build, friendly and pretty,nice touch, with a lot of energy, service oriented, aka Coco. and ๐Ÿ’ž๐Ÿ’‹ Lisa, small build, ๐Ÿ’ ๐Ÿ“ž 647 348-2899๐Ÿ“ž
  17. Hollywood_Spa:
    ๐Ÿ’˜๐Ÿ’‹ a very clean spa at 4578 Yonge Street, unit 100๐Ÿ’žโฃ๐Ÿ’‹Thursday, ๐Ÿ’˜๐Ÿ’ž Cindy, ๐Ÿ’–abt 5'6", slim build, brown hair past shoulder, very pretty, friendly personality. good English, excellent treatment and service.. ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹ Gaga, ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹medium height. Curvy build, good looking, dark hair to shoulder, medium firm treatment, full service menu. ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ’ฅ Sisi,๐Ÿ’‹ very slim build, medium height, can do firm treatment and over the top service. Cheerful personality and always thrilled to see you. ๐Ÿ’ž ๐Ÿ“ฑ 416 222-5554๐Ÿ“ฑ
  18. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Suki๐Ÿ˜is beautiful short petite tiny sexy student from Cambodia. Exotic features and model looks, Suki has a nice bum, slim waist, flat stomach and very good massage skills and has a great playful personality. Suki has a beautiful sexy sm
  19. Red_Pearl_Spa:
    ๐Ÿ”ดโฃ at 4385 Sheppard Avenue east, unit 5 โค๐Ÿ‘„๐ŸŒทThursday, โค Yoyo,๐Ÿ’‹ slim body and pretty, here for therapeutic treatment with relaxation+ ๐Ÿคฉ Tammy, full body, good overall treatment. ๐Ÿ”ด โ˜Ž๏ธ 647 352-1588โ˜Ž๏ธ
  20. bnwellness_wilson:
    Blue Nile Wellness Center, we have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young sweet Tina with curve body and young fun Ivy with big buttocks , young Japanese Lily 36 DDD and pretty GFE Ella are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in aways welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  21. Dreaminn:
    THURSDAY at๐Ÿ’ญ๐——๐—ฅ๐—˜๐—”๐—  ๐—œ๐—ก๐—ก ๐—ช๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’ญ: EVA, HONEY & VIVI. 10225 Yonge St (North of Major Mackenzie), Richmond Hill, ON โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ โ˜Ž๏ธ EVA is a slim, pretty & sexy Asian girl. She has excellent bbbj skills if you are nice and clean, and can perform like a champion. HONEY is a beautiful slim Asian lady with an ample bosom, slightly curvy with a great ass. Her services are highly sought after.
  22. SunriseRH:
    THURSDAY at ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—ก๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—ฆ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”: MICHELLE & SUMMER. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 27, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿด๐Ÿฒ โ˜Ž๏ธ MIA is a young Vietnamese beauty with the looks and the skills. MICHELLE is a young, curvaceous beauty, 5โ€™2โ€ & 130Lbs, 37DDD-31-41, a trim waist, and a nice butt. Come and be pampered. SUMMER is an incredibly sweet Asian babe, 5โ€™3โ€
  23. gold__rose__spa:
    ๐Ÿ’๐Ÿต at 1536 Warden Avenue โฃ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’ž๐Ÿ’Thursday, ๐Ÿ’˜ Michelle๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹ for traditional style treatment and quality services., newly toned body, strong, does very firm treatment, pleasant personality. ๐Ÿ’‹ Judy, good service ๐ŸŒน ๐Ÿ“ณ 647 346-8086๐Ÿ“ณ
  24. NewOriental:
    THURSDAY at ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’š๐—ก๐—˜๐—ช ๐—ข๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง๐—”๐—Ÿ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ: HAPPY, HELEN & LULU. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿด๐Ÿญ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ HAPPY is a slim & busty Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. HELEN is a young, slim & very sexy Vietnamese lady. She not only looks good, she IS good.
  25. ASPA:
    ๐—ง๐—›๐—จ๐—ฅ๐—ฆ๐——๐—”๐—ฌ๐—”๐—ง ๐€ ๐’๐๐€: Fox, Coco & ๐—ฏ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜ ๐—บ๐—ฎ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ฎ๐—ด๐—ฒ ๐—ฅ๐—ฎ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—น[/color] ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ FOX is 26 years old with 34Cโ€™s, stands 164Cm tall and weighs 54Kg. Fox is very friendly and can provide a great girlfriend experience.
  26. HolidaySpa:
    Thursday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธCindy & Jenny. Cindy is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best! Jenny has a medium build, nicely curved with a slim waist, pretty face, and very flexible skills. Jenny will make you very happy.
  27. ForeverWarden:
    Thursday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ๐Ÿซฆ2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Cindy, Sofia & Tracy. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Sophia is a sweet & pretty Chinese lady with natural B Cups and an awe-inspiring smooth rounded ass.
  28. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡10am-2am, Young Sexy Curvy Latina Karen, New First Day Sexy Chinese Miumiu, Young Sexy CBC Rachel. Slim Sexy Chinese Kiki, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Young Sexy Chinese Abie.
  29. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix Blossom spa We have 3 beautiful young girls working today, young and lovely new girl Vicy and Jenny Specialising in table shower body scrub massages and offering deep massages Cici๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—5124 Dundas St W Etobicoke Please call โ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366 to book and Walk in the back door there is plenty of parking available๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘
  30. admin:
    No spamming shoutbox allowed
  31. do you speak English:
    I go for massages 3 times a week and places like bmr should be banned a total rip off mu only mistake was i should of left after bee when the management rips you off then the employees follow and the low life promoters do not want the truth to be heard so i am blocked
  32. do you speak English:
    This spa only likes the fake reviews
  33. do you speak English:
    O am a customer not working with any spa if you do not want real reviews please ban me on this site i hate rip off places
  34. Social-Misfit:
    do you speak tardnick, they blocked u cause yawl full of shit as usual
  35. do you speak English:
    Stay away from bmr spa atotal rip offthey blocked me to avoid the truth about the place a total rip off
  36. Moon203:
    MoonMoon spa/416 887 8801/8131Yonge st #203 young hot CBC 36F big boobs in today &Good service Cuban girl Mimi in Thursday
  37. do you speak English:
    Is this just service
  38. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ(437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅTODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: Jenny๐Ÿ˜˜ - An exotic tall and slim Vietnamese
  39. SugarLoveSpa:
    Wednesday at Sugar Love Spa: Jennifer & Lulu. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON โ˜Ž 437-365-2688 โ˜Ž HANA(9pm-5am) is a slim, sexy & very liberal Mexican lady with incredible services. JENNIFER is new today. Details to follow... LULU is also new today. Details later... TIFFANY is an amazing slim petite doll with natural 34C melons, slim waist
  40. KSpa:
    WEDNESDAY at ๐Š ๐’๐๐€: ANA, CINDY, KELLY & SUKI. Unit B6-4227 Sheppard Ave East Scarborough, ON (Just East of Midland Ave) โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฎ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ ANA is a pretty lady standing 5โ€™4โ€ & weighing 115 Lbs, with 36C melons and a very sexy body. CINDY is slim & pretty with a 5โ€™3โ€ sexy body, big boobs 34D, and a nice curvy bum. Cindy can relax all your cares with her massage and great services.
  41. SpringGreen.:
    Spring Green Spa - 72 Gerrard St W. 2/Fl - 647-891-0699Today we have 5 girls on wednesday๏ผš New Polish gir gigi๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹angel- Tanned Spanish beauty with large melons and a fun booty too Wendy- exotic goddess with a gymnasts body and corresponding flexibility CiCi- Exotic beauty with great service and...
  42. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅ Zoe - ๐Ÿ”ฅStunning Tall Taiwanese Service Queen with Endless Passion and Sensuality who Wa
  43. Birchmount&14th:
    WEDNESDAY at ๐๐ˆ๐‘๐‚๐‡๐Œ๐Ž๐”๐๐“ & ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’๐ญ๐ก: JESSIE & YUKI. Birchmount Rd & 14th Ave., Markham, ON. Call or Text for details and appointment. โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฐ โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐—๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ๐—œ๐—˜ is a slim and very lovely Asian girl with massage skills of the highest degree. ๐—ฌ๐—จ๐—ž๐—œ is here today to provide an amazing professional massage. We are open 24 Hours daily. We have clean rooms and plenty of free parking.
  44. ASPA:
    ๐—ช๐—˜๐——๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฆ๐——๐—”๐—ฌ at ๐€ ๐’๐๐€: Amy, Coco & ๐—ฏ๐—ฒ๐˜€๐˜ ๐—บ๐—ฎ๐˜€๐˜€๐—ฎ๐—ด๐—ฒ ๐—ฅ๐—ฎ๐—ฐ๐—ต๐—ฒ๐—น ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐€ ๐’๐๐€๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ, 28 South Unionville Ave, Unit 5, Markham. ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ๐—–๐—ฎ๐—น๐—น ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฒ ๐—ผ๐—ฟ ๐˜๐—ฒ๐˜…๐˜ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿ…ฐ๏ธ AMY is young and very friendly, standing 158 Cms. with 34C Cups and a very nice bum. Amy is a very popular student, young, sexy, and open minded. She is in demand for her good massage
  45. SunriseRH:
    WEDNESDAY at ๐—ฆ๐—จ๐—ก๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—ฆ๐—˜ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”: MICHELLE, RIYA & NEW GIRL YOYO. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 27, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฑ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿด๐Ÿฒ โ˜Ž๏ธ MICHELLE is a young, curvaceous beauty, 5โ€™2โ€ & 130Lbs, 37DDD-31-41, a trim waist, and a nice butt. Come and be pampered. RIYA is a dynamic black lady with nice D Cups, responsive nipples, and a curvy ass. She knows all the tricks.
  46. NewOriental:
    WEDNESDAY at ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’š๐—ก๐—˜๐—ช ๐—ข๐—ฅ๐—œ๐—˜๐—ก๐—ง๐—”๐—Ÿ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ: HAPPY & VIVIAN. 10 East Wilmot St, Unit 26, Richmond Hill, on โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿด๐Ÿญ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ HAPPY is a slim & busty Korean lady with great massage skills & lots of extra fun. VIVIAN is a pretty & very sexy Chinese doll, standing 5โ€™7โ€ tall, with a slim figure. Vivian is very friendly and versatile.
  47. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Angel ๐Ÿ’• Very beautiful girl from Taiwan, very curvy, young and sexy, she can provide a great massage and wonderful touch and super service. Angel is so sexy, especially her 34C breasts and her big juicy tight bum you can worship and ador
  48. HolidaySpa:
    Wednesday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธCindy, Kelly & Kiki. Cindy is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best! Kelly is slim and attractive with very slight curves, all natural coconuts, a nice bum, and rockinโ€™ services.
  49. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 5 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธMALIYA, RAVEN, NINA, PAOLA, ANGEL, AAVI, PAYAL PEARL, SANA, KIRAN๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  50. ForeverWarden:
    Wednesday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Bella, Cindy & Sasa. Bella is around 5โ€™3โ€ with a thin to medium build, C Cups, and a pleasing personality. She can offer dfk, bbbj and cfs as well as a good massage experience. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild
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