PRICING DEPENDING ON FREQUENCY OF VISIT

curiousone64

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There is a lady that I have seen who operates out of a "legit" professional beauty studio.

Along with massage, she does esthetics to include nails, etc, so it does not stand out as being a "massage studio".

As I have seen her for her "massages" she has one set price (which I have budgeted for and have paid).

The last time I saw her, she said that her service was $50 more then previous, as it had been more then a month since I had seen her (as I was out of town).

My question to the masses....have you seen a lady who offers price "X" if you see her once every 1-2 weeks, vs price "Y" if you see her once a month.

Services were the same, but then I was penalized for not being able to see her frequently, and thus pricing went up $50.
 
Nope have not seen that.
I've always had to pay the same price and thats it.
Doesn't sound very professional what she did as it will drive people away.
Let me ask you this as a follow up question what were you paying for the visit before?

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I 100% agree with every comment, that is a shitty thing to do and I wouldn't be spending any more $$$ there. The only exception would be if I were getting a $50 discount before as a regular and she is removing the discount.

I personally don't get any discounts from my regulars so I wouldn't know how it would happen.
 
There is a lady that I have seen who operates out of a "legit" professional beauty studio.

Along with massage, she does esthetics to include nails, etc, so it does not stand out as being a "massage studio".

As I have seen her for her "massages" she has one set price (which I have budgeted for and have paid).

The last time I saw her, she said that her service was $50 more then previous, as it had been more then a month since I had seen her (as I was out of town).

My question to the masses....have you seen a lady who offers price "X" if you see her once every 1-2 weeks, vs price "Y" if you see her once a month.

Services were the same, but then I was penalized for not being able to see her frequently, and thus pricing went up $50.
Ah, yes I can relate. Approx. 7-8 years ago I was seeing a regular lady at a MP. I would see her once a month for an hour. I was being charged $180 FS plus tip for the hour. We had this arrangement for 5 years, so you can imagine we were pretty comfortable with each other.
I knew I was receiving a regular customer discount. Back than I was receiving $20 off an hour. Seems like a pittance compared to going rates these days. Man I hate inflation. One day, which would be my last day seeing her, she said I should be coming to see her "4" times a month at that discounted rate! What?
She made that statement in a rather terse tone after our session. So I gave her the $200 she was looking for, and she looked at me like I stole her purse!! I said sorry that's all I brought....thinking $180 usual rate plus $20 tip. Bad day or not that would be the last time I ever seen her and by the way she slammed the door on my way out, that sealed it. LOL! In retro-spect if she would have told me straight up I have to charge more per session, I may have been receptive to the idea. But her approach was not the best. Like I said, bad day or not.....
As I mentioned that was 7-8 years ago. And that same place as I am sure many others now charge $300 and north for an hour. Just makes a person wonder how high can the market bear?
 
Just makes a person wonder how high can the market bear?
Welcome to Capitalism! The higher the demand, the higher the price! I think a SP eventually finds the "happy medium" for her price by her popularity. If she jacks up the price too high, she loses clients- too low and she's turning clients away. I also firmly believe that if there's something about you that turns off a SP, the price goes up and conversely if she really likes you.
 
Last edited:
Ah, yes I can relate. Approx. 7-8 years ago I was seeing a regular lady at a MP. I would see her once a month for an hour. I was being charged $180 FS plus tip for the hour. We had this arrangement for 5 years, so you can imagine we were pretty comfortable with each other.
I knew I was receiving a regular customer discount. Back than I was receiving $20 off an hour. Seems like a pittance compared to going rates these days. Man I hate inflation. One day, which would be my last day seeing her, she said I should be coming to see her "4" times a month at that discounted rate! What?
She made that statement in a rather terse tone after our session. So I gave her the $200 she was looking for, and she looked at me like I stole her purse!! I said sorry that's all I brought....thinking $180 usual rate plus $20 tip. Bad day or not that would be the last time I ever seen her and by the way she slammed the door on my way out, that sealed it. LOL! In retro-spect if she would have told me straight up I have to charge more per session, I may have been receptive to the idea. But her approach was not the best. Like I said, bad day or not.....
As I mentioned that was 7-8 years ago. And that same place as I am sure many others now charge $300 and north for an hour. Just makes a person wonder how high can the market bear?
Hmmm, sounds totally married. Wants to see you more, wants more $$$, doors slamming and bitchy. That's life LOL
 
Welcome to Capitalism! The higher the demand, the higher the price! I think a SP eventually finds the "happy medium" for her price by her popularity. If she jacks up the price too high, she loses clients- too low and she's turning clients away. I also firmly believe that if there's something about you that turns off a SP, the price goes up and conversely if she really likes you.
For sure, she definately liked me, since all things were very good for 5 years up until that day. No worries, many oppurtunities await. Just moved my business elsewhere.
 
Hmmm, sounds totally married. Wants to see you more, wants more $$$, doors slamming and bitchy. That's life LOL
Come to think of it, she was in the process of kicking somebody to the curb. Not my place to inquire, but Holy bad day or what. From what I recall from that last session....all was good till the end.
 
Based on OP's post, suggestion is to just stop going to that shop. We vote every time with our spend.

Having said that I will lay out other type of situation where this idea works. This is where a therapist agrees to see you in private in her hours when she is not working at a shop. It might be at her own residence or a space she rents in a home. These are very rare situations. However, occasionally they occur. The therapist probably is not looking for a large number of clients. Just a few good clients that repeat often. Maybe 4 or 6 times a month. And the hours are usually the hours she doesn't work at the shop. Or on days off. These rare situations can be a win-win for both parties. Longer blocks of time. But if a client is not a very regular repeat client they are usually bumped off the list. The idea is to minimize the hassle of bookings, and create a stable income flow from spare time. It's not like the business in shops.





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Agree with UserNameTakenโ€ฆusually your regulars โ€œholdโ€œ a rate for you Especially if you go often, and even start offering extras without extra fees. When this starts happening i usually start feeling bad if it becomes less than average and slip in extra cash to offset and start a new held rateโ€ฆ

feel bad for OP as he obviously has seen her often which means that he is enjoying her massage so it is hard to walk away and they have come to be familiar. But he is also treated badly. Hopefully it was only an error on her part. I would return once more and see how it goes. No regrets.
 
I find there's either 2 ways it usually goes when you start seeing someone regularly - either they appreciate you and start offering you either a little better service or maybe a few extra minutes here and there, or they take you for granted and their service level slips.

When the latter result happens I stop seeing them. I've never heard of being penalized for not going often enough, especially after you have been seeing her regularly for a while.
 
Bump bump.. at least the idea of loyalty based pricing is reasonable if it's done right


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In regular therapy shops it is fairly common to sell packages of 5 or 10 or more massages for the fiscal year at discounted prices. These are targeted at clients with insurance to lock in their business for any given year. It's not measured by visits per month, but it's a means to lock in visits per year.

Personally I am not a fan of these deals as there is no assurance that services will remain consistent through the year.


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I agree TBone. I have often been the type to become somewhat of a regular. I would suggest that 4/5 times the service actually starts to drop. Most recently, I had one of my most significant connections with a woman, and I found after about a year of seeing her, that the hour together was frequently her chance to let her guard down, take it easy, talk a lot. You'd be surprised of the things I could tell you about that one. Anyhow, just one example to affirm the point.

I have heard of ladies, as many of us have, who are willing to reduce the price after you've shown yourself to be a regular, but they are the ones to suggest it. I've never seen it work this way - where you get a better price the first time, and then get penalized without knowing for not coming as often.

Also subjective - as a lot of women consider once a month still a regular.
 
I pay a fixed fee for the service. I usually tell it's for 1 hour, but sometimes close within 45 mins. My choice. I have never reduced the fixed fee and it has remained that way for many years. They have not asked to increase the fee even if I don't show up for couple of months. That's why I keep going there because I know what I will get and what I will pay.
 
Based on OP's post, suggestion is to just stop going to that shop. We vote every time with our spend.

Having said that I will lay out other type of situation where this idea works. This is where a therapist agrees to see you in private in her hours when she is not working at a shop. It might be at her own residence or a space she rents in a home. These are very rare situations. However, occasionally they occur. The therapist probably is not looking for a large number of clients. Just a few good clients that repeat often. Maybe 4 or 6 times a month. And the hours are usually the hours she doesn't work at the shop. Or on days off. These rare situations can be a win-win for both parties. Longer blocks of time. But if a client is not a very regular repeat client they are usually bumped off the list. The idea is to minimize the hassle of bookings, and create a stable income flow from spare time. It's not like the business in shops.





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Alberta man has a point and it could be the same in my situation.

The person I see runs a legit aesthetics practice that includes: massages, nails, facials etc (all that good stuff that women like).

In saying that, she still has a yearning for some extra "spice" in her life (which I was filling).

Yes, i did see her more frequently then I do now...it wasn't a change in service quality, but rather life/timing, etc.

Will I sill see again....yes...but you would think that frequency wouldn't play a factor in pricing !

In finding this rare gem, a person has to keep in mind:

- she is NOT 20 or 30 years old (she's a mature woman - 40's).

- she is not a size 5 type of lady (she's more of a MILF as she's had 3 kids).....I would say medium size....curvy but not BBW

- she is NOT white/caucasian or Chinese...her demographic fits more of a "tan" coloured culture

- she is good at what she does....and with the right person, she is NOT shy.
 
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    Blue Nile Wellness Center, we have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young fun Tina 35 years old with curve body and young pretty student Summer 30 years old , sexy Coco and sweet GFE Lina are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in aways welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  30. ForeverWarden:
    Friday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ด๐ŸŸฅโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Cindy, Mia, Nana & Sasa. Cindy is a slim beauty, 5โ€™4โ€, natural C Cups & wonderfully long nipples. Her massage is nice, her bbbj will drive you wild & her cfs finish is a dream come true. Mia is a Caribbean service queen temptress with incredible curves. She can bbbj like a queen, & is open to dfk & cfs.
  31. Endless Joy Spa:
    โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ[GRAND OPENING]โœจโœจโœจโœจโœจ ๐Ÿ’žEndless Joy Spa๐Ÿ’ž ๐ŸŽ‡ (155 East Beaver Creek Rd Unit #8, Richmond Hill) 416-731-8565๐ŸŽ‡10am-2am, Young Slim Sexy Chinese Yoyo, Young Sexy CBC Rachel. Slim Sexy Chinese Kiki, Tall Slim Sexy Chinese Kelly, Young Sexy Chinese Abie.
  32. HolidaySpa:
    Friday at ๐ŸŒด๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒ…๐“—๐“ธ๐“ต๐“ฒ๐“ญ๐“ช๐”‚ ๐“ข๐“น๐“ช๐ŸŒ…๐Ÿ˜Ž๐ŸŒด3517 Kennedy Rd, Unit 4, Scarborough โ˜Ž๏ธ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿญ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿต๐Ÿตโ˜Ž๏ธCindy & Lina Cindy is a slim & incredibly sexy lady with a smile that will melt your heart, & an ass that will fire up your spirit. Her services are among the best! Lina is very well known for her great services and her impressive shapely ass. Come and see why! You will be glad you did.
  33. Flowers Spa:
    โœฐ BLUEXADO SPA โœฐ 416.357.9797 โœฐ 1102 Centre St, Unit #6 Vaughan ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ Hanna from Vietnam, young and good energeticโ€ฆGreat Service...๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ ELLY | KELLY (age 21) is Vietnamese Chinese. She is 5'6" tall, has a slender build, and possesses an energetic personality...Available treatments include...๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ MY LINH | LINDA a 21-year-old Vietnamese, offers comfortable and professional full-body treatments.๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณMIMI | CANDY (New) 19Yrs Vietnamese beautiful face, very friendly...Must See...@ BLUE
  34. Lulu1980:
    Phoenix Blossom spa We have 3 beautiful young girls working today, young and lovely Vicy and Jenny Specialising in table shower body scrub massages and offering deep massages Cici๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—๐Ÿค—5124 Dundas W Etobicoke Please call โ˜Ž๏ธ416-817-3366 to book and Walk in the back door there is plenty of parking available
  35. Pink Flower Spa:
    โœฐ 416.299.5515 โœฐ 3300 McNicoll Ave, Unit #A8, Scarborough ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ Mandy | Mady (New) Indian | Filipino 19Yrs, hair to shoulder, pretty face...Nice Service...๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ Hanna from Vietnam, young and good energeticโ€ฆGreat Service...๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ JULLIE | JESSIE a 19-year-old Chinese and Vietnamese woman, provides exceptional service with her youthful beauty...๐Ÿ‡ฑ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฑ๐Ÿ‡ง A talented Girl from Lebanon is joining our team, bringing with her a unique set of skills and a fresh perspective....Details to be reveal
  36. Red Rose Spa:
    ๐ŸŒธ We have 5 hot brown girls today ๐ŸŒธMALIYA, RAVEN, NINA, PAOLA, ANGEL, AAVI, PAYAL PEARL, SANA, KIRAN๐ŸŒธ 2588 Birchmount ๐ŸŒธ 2 Invergordon ๐ŸŒธ 647-702-8800 ๐ŸŒธ Please visit for a great erotic massage
  37. dave guhan:
    ๐Ÿ’‹ ALEX is back! ๐Ÿ’‹ HOT BLONDE UKRAINIAN GIRL ๐Ÿ’‹ 4 hands massage available only $40 ๐Ÿ’‹ Open until 9pm ๐Ÿ’‹ 608 THE QUEENSWAY ETOBICOKE ๐Ÿ’‹ 416-354-2009 ๐Ÿ’‹
  38. SpringGreen.:
    Spring Green Spa - 72 Gerrard St W. 2/Fl - 647-891-0699Today we have 5 girls on Thursday๏ผšNew girl Judy ๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹ Vittoria- Sweet school girl with a large serving of naughtiness Angela- Slim beauty with long legs and nice proportions Julia- Exotic...
  39. Moneylee:
    All season wellness center: Young girl big boobs beautiful face deep massage Tina ,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Cindy ,young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Helen,Student big boobs buttocks Vicky, Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Sherry ,๐Ÿ address: #5-30 Rambler dr Brampton ,Ontario L6W 1E2โ˜Ž๏ธ4376655510 ๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„
  40. Moneylee:
    Full season wellness center: New Young girl pretty face big boobs nice figure deep massage Anika , New Young girl pretty face nice figure Thai deep massage Tiffany,Young girl big breasted beautiful buttocks charming temperament big boobs Anjoo ,Young girl Big breasted saucy naughty Ella,Enchanting sexy petite deep massage Mary. 2560 Shepard ave Mississauga unit 1 โ˜Ž๏ธ4379857899 ๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿ‘„๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿˆต๏ธ๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿฆต๐Ÿฆต
  41. Lily Spa:
    โค๏ธ KAJAL, HANA and KK are here today for your massage needs โค๏ธ Lily Spa โค๏ธ 2190 McNicoll โค๏ธ Scarborough โค๏ธ M1V 5M2 โค๏ธ (647) 531-8288 โค๏ธ
  42. Birchmount&14th:
    THURSDAY at ๐๐ˆ๐‘๐‚๐‡๐Œ๐Ž๐”๐๐“ & ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ’๐ญ๐ก: JESSIE & YUKI. Birchmount Rd & 14th Ave., Markham, ON. Call or Text for details and appointment. โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฐ โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐—๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ๐—œ๐—˜ is a slim and very lovely Asian girl with massage skills of the highest degree. ๐—ฌ๐—จ๐—ž๐—œ is here today to provide an amazing professional massage. We are open 24 Hours daily. We have clean rooms and plenty of free parking.
  43. SugarLoveSpa:
    Thursday at Sugar Love Spa: Angela, Hana, Jennifer & Tiffany. 1270 Finch Ave W (at Keele St), Unit 18. North York, ON โ˜Ž 437-365-2688 โ˜Ž ANGELA(9pm-5am) is new today. Details later... HANA(9pm-5am) is a slim, sexy & very liberal Mexican lady with incredible services. JENNIFER is friendly and service oriented. TIFFANY is an amazing slim petite doll with natural 34C melons, slim
  44. Moon203:
    MoonMoon/416 887 8801/8131Yonge st #203 Good service Cuban girl Mimi and 36F big tits BoBo in Thursday
  45. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ(437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅTODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: Anna๐Ÿ˜˜- A stunning sexy girl from Hong Kong
  46. KSpa:
    THURSDAY at ๐Š ๐’๐๐€: ADA, VICKY, KELLY & CINDY. Unit B6-4227 Sheppard Ave East Scarborough, ON (Just East of Midland Ave) โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿต๐Ÿฎ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฑ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿด โ˜Ž๏ธ ADA is 23, 5โ€™4โ€ and 120 Lbs, sweet and sexy with a nice 36C bust and great services. VICKY is 21, Korean, 5โ€™2โ€ & 100 Lbs, with a cute pretty face, good service, & nice 34B pillows to comfort you. KELLY stands 5โ€™3โ€ & weighs 110 Lbs, with nice 34D's
  47. Sparkling Spa:
    โšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸSPARKLING SPAโšก๏ธ๐ŸŒŸ โœ…50 Lockridge Ave Unit 8โœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒMarkham, ON L3R 8X4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(905) 604-8186 Spa Land Lineโ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(437) 446-6688 NEW Spa Cell Phoneโ˜Ž๏ธ (West of Warden & 16th Ave) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅSUPERSTAR SERVICE QUEENS AVAILABLE AT SPARKLING SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅSEXY NEW YOUNG GIRLS ALWAYS WORKING - Todayโ€™s Schedule isโ€ฆ๐Ÿ”ฅ Zoe - ๐Ÿ”ฅStunning Tall Taiwanese Service Queen with Endless Passion and Sensuality who Wa
  48. Annie Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ANNIE SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…7-1001 SANDHURST CIRCLEโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒSCARBOROUGH ON M1V 1Z6๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ(647) 891-9688โ˜Ž๏ธ โ˜Ž๏ธ(416) 291-8879โ˜Ž๏ธ (FINCH & MCCOWAN) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…NEW MANAGEMENT๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ”ฅGORGEOUS NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS - TODAYโ€™s ROSTER INCLUDES: ๐Ÿ”ฅ Suki๐Ÿ˜is beautiful short petite tiny sexy student from Cambodia. Exotic features and model looks, Suki has a nice bum, slim waist, flat stomach and very good massage skills and has a great playful personality. Suki has a beautiful sexy sm
  49. bnwellness_wilson:
    Blue Nile Wellness Center, we have 4 young beautiful girls are working today, young sweet Tina with curve body and young fun Ivy with big buttocks , young Japanese Lily 36 DDD and pretty GFE Ella are providing deep tissue and sensual massage, pls call 416-3985777 book appointment and walk in aways welcome, back entrance and parking available, 350 Wilson Ave North York
  50. Dreaminn:
    THURSDAY at๐Ÿ’ญ๐——๐—ฅ๐—˜๐—”๐—  ๐—œ๐—ก๐—ก ๐—ช๐—˜๐—Ÿ๐—Ÿ๐—ก๐—˜๐—ฆ๐—ฆ ๐—ฆ๐—ฃ๐—”๐Ÿ’ญ: EVA, HONEY & VIVI. 10225 Yonge St (North of Major Mackenzie), Richmond Hill, ON โ˜Ž๏ธ ๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿณ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต-๐Ÿฎ๐Ÿต๐Ÿด๐Ÿฏ โ˜Ž๏ธ EVA is a slim, pretty & sexy Asian girl. She has excellent bbbj skills if you are nice and clean, and can perform like a champion. HONEY is a beautiful slim Asian lady with an ample bosom, slightly curvy with a great ass. Her services are highly sought after.
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