With Chinese herbs or not?

[bean]

Hi all

I am booked in for my first acupuncture consultation/session next week and am very excited about it.
The problem is I read that acupuncture should be backed up with taking chinese herbs and alone is not as good.
The acupuncturist that i will be seeing has sent me some literature and it doesn't say anything about herbs.
Now I am a little worried as I thought that acupuncture on it's own would be fine. Should I be looking for an acupuncturist who does both?
Please help!
Sky

 

[Time for your examination]

Hi Sky,

Please do not worry. Acupuncture on its own can be very powerful. Depending on what your problem is, herbs may help shift things faster, but they may not be necessary at all.


Never believe all that you read!

Let us know how you get on?

Artemis

 

[gintable]

Hello Sky
Acupuncture does not need to be back up with herbs! It is a therapy in its own right.

What you read may be biased by the fact that almost every chinese herbalist trains in acupuncture first. So, since a herbalist will also be an acupuncturist, they will tend to recommend or use both therapies together. What you read may simply have been written by a herbalist who favours this approach.

There's no need to worry (I assume your acupuncturist is professionally trained?). I hope your treatments are rewarding for you and help you in the ways you expect and more!

Best wishes
Aragorn

 

[jessid928]

hiya

all your guys make a big mistake ~

you know what is acupuncture in china ? it is only a small branch in tcm system

you know how to learn it in china ? 5 year BSc course , 3 year tcm study including western and chinese medicine , 1 year specialized course

and 1 year clinical practice . With 3-year study in tcm ,you can know more about tcm and then you will know how much necesary combining

herbs and acupuncture . Remeber this ,a good tcm doc should specialize in tcm herbs and know when is to use acupuncture to assist

treatment.

good luck

Dr. TCM

 

[mommyofthree]

Hi Dr TCM,

A TCM doctor in China is a fully trained doctor. Like our medical doctors in the West. In countries like France or Germany, only medical doctors are allowed to do acupuntcure. In Britain one can trian as a Chinese herbalist without learning how to use needles. Or train as an acupuncturist without learning how to use herbs. But a good practitionner shoudl knwo when to refer to toehrs who have the knowledge one does not have.

Artemis

 

[fight.trainer]

Dear All,

The normal training for Acupuncture in the UK currently is a 3 - 4 year BSc course. For people who want to train in herbs also, this is normally another two years. Most collesges also encourage students to do some post graduate training in China although this is not compulsory.

In the UK we also have opportunities for post graduates to undertake both MSc courses and PHD Doctorates in Chinese Medicine and associated subjects.


We should be clear that a TCM Doctor trained in China is not the same as medical Doctor. Some Doctors in China train in both Western and Chinese Medicine and practice both but it is also possible to be trained purely in TCM and only practice this which is similar to the training we have in the UK.


The main difference in the way we practice acupuncture in the UK is in the practice of five element acupuncture. After the communist takeover in China this system of acupuncture was removed from the TCM syllabus as it dealt with things such as the spirit and had certain ideas that were anachronistic to the new Chinese Idealogy.

The Doctors and teachers of TCM who managed to escape from China went to countries such as Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan etc where they continued to practice what has become known as five-element acupuncture as well as the style we now call TCM.

After the 2nd world War there were European and American soldiers and officials who learnt acupuncture outside of China and were able to bring it back to the west and this is why today the acupuncture courses taught in many UK colleges are more encompassing than the way TCM is taught in China.

Because of this it is true that acupuncture is used much more frequently than it is used in China and it is used to treat conditions that would normally be treated with herbal medicine in China.

We have much to learn from China and its unique form of medicine but we also have much to offer and hopefully at some future date we will be able to return something that was once lost.

With regard to herbs, we have only just begun to realise the potential of Chinese Herbal Medicine which in the right hands has the potential to revolutionise the way we deliver healthcare in the UK and it is true that for many conditions herbs are very useful and sometimes essential.

Chinese Herbal Medicine, in many situations, is far superior than what is available in terms of Western medicines but the key to all Chinese Medicine is in the skill of the practitioner in being able to diagnose the condition accurately and provide the best possible treatment plan.

TB

 

[ali.a.j]

Hello Dr TCM


Maybe you would like to open a new thread to tell us about it?

Artemis

 

[MsJamers RN]

Dear Dr TCM,

The TCM colleges in the UK teach a syllabus that is very similar to TCM courses taught in China and yes on these courses wu xing or the 5 phases would often be taught in the first year along with the eight principles, the six divisions and the four levels.

What is different however is that we have some colleges that ONLY teach five element theory for the full three or four years and the five element theory that is taught is a little different to regular wu xing theory.

For instance the focus of treatment is finding the constitutional factor (CF) for the patient and then treating them on that element, which would normally involve tonification of the source points.

Other techniques used in this system are, aggresive energy drains, determination of entry-exit blocks, internal and external dragons. In general the five element colleges do not teach any herbal medicine.

Do these techniques sound familiar to you or are they now only taught outside of China? Chapter 8 of the Su Wen goes into these ideas in some detail.

We also have one college in the UK that specialises in 'stems and branches' where date of birth and astrological information is also used to determine the best acupuncture points to use. Is there anything like it still being practiced in China?

I hope to be in China next month so will have the chance to research this some more with luck.


Best wishes, Tony

 

[Pebriniulceni]

Hi Tony
When a group of my colleagues were in China, they managed to find one "old-timer" who recognised the point combination used for the Internal Dragons. He was the only one that had any idea what they were talking about!
He said it was something to do with bad spirits, IIRC.

Aragorn

P.S. There's a little bit more to treating the CF than just tonifying the source points.

 

[blue eyed devil]

hi there,

i must say i find the argument between aragorn and dr tcm very interesting, just alone for it accomodates what i've read on acupuncture and gives it an interesting ancle.

i was under the delusion i could escape the frustration of front line care work into an all peaceful world of smaller needles...

thanks,

have a beautiful night,

a "dry needeler"