Varicose Veins

[dan90]

My mother has varicose vein....she has a lot of them. They have gotten worse with massage. Does anyone know how to treat them so they will not get as bad as they already are?

Thank you....

 

[moderateprofessor]

Vericose Veins are contraindicated for massage. She needs to see a doctor if they are getting worse. She may need to have them stripped.

 

[Becky D]

Isn't it ok to lightly hold the leg between your hands and let the heat energy work its magic without manually manipulating the tissue? I need to know if I can't do this as I've had several clients benefit from this. They both went from daily leg cramps to having them once or twice a week. I work slowly down the leg, holding the leg very lightly for 2 minutes and can feel the muscle responding beneath my hands.

 

[Nat2036]

Isn't it ok to lightly hold the leg between your hands and let the heat energy work its magic without manually manipulating the tissue? I need to know if I can't do this as I've had several clients benefit from this. They both went from daily leg cramps to having them once or twice a week. I work slowly down the leg, holding the leg very lightly for 2 minutes and can feel the muscle responding beneath my hands.

I'm bumping this up because I want to make sure I'm not doing potential harm to my clients. One client has vericose veins surrounding both ankles and I hold her feet. The other client has definate vericose veins from knee to ankle, but she runs 6 miles a day. So, would my holding her leg as I do cause her more harm? She has gone from taking pain meds every day to once a week so the work is helping her, but it's not worth it if what I'm doing could cause a clot to dislodge. Could it?

 

[Awesome Uber]

Varicose veins are not automatically a clot problem (although we are not the ones to determine that obviously - that's for her doc to determine). I feel comfortable doing holding and super-light work over tissue that has some varicosity (I'm talking 1/2 pound of pressure effleurage, flat hand rather than fingertips). I do this not to treat the varicosities, though, but rather just to be able to include the leg in the full-body massge.

To the OP, though -- I'm not familiar with any massage treatment for varicose veins. Has anyone heard of such a thing? I can't imagine it would be within our scope of practice to make claims about affecting circulatory tissue, but who knows, maybe someone is doing it.

 

[Katy]

Varicose veins are not automatically a clot problem (although we are not the ones to determine that obviously - that's for her doc to determine). I feel comfortable doing holding and super-light work over tissue that has some varicosity (I'm talking 1/2 pound of pressure effleurage, flat hand rather than fingertips). I do this not to treat the varicosities, though, but rather just to be able to include the leg in the full-body massge.
To the OP, though -- I'm not familiar with any massage treatment for varicose veins. Has anyone heard of such a thing? I can't imagine it would be within our scope of practice to make claims about affecting circulatory tissue, but who knows, maybe someone is doing it.

I am only holding and was comfortable with that because of the good results (much few leg cramps and less pain). But I never expected to feel things moving underneath by holding still with such light pressure. I can feel her muscles twitching and when I read the prior responses, it made me second-guess myself as to whether clots could be dislodged even with that light pressure.

 

[Funnel]

I'm not an expert on this, but I would be amazed if we could palpate a clot dislodging! Muscle twitch is one thing, but blood clots are not large and move slowly.

But I cannot stress this enough -- if you have ANY reason to suspect that there is an issue of clots, is there a reason you are not checking this out with her MD? Varicosity is such an individual situation that if you are unsure, I would recommend getting her permission to chat w/her doc -- it sounds like at least one of the 2 is under a doctor's care. Again, it sounds like you are doing very gentle work, but with something that is usually such a clear c/i I really recommend you at least CYA and at best get a consult.

Also -- are you working with intent to affect the varicosities, or just on the muscle tissue and trying to avoid the VVs? I'm assuming/hoping it's the latter . . . Be very careful what you chart in this situation -- you do NOT want to be interpreted as attempting to make changes in the veins themselves.

 

[Darkness]

I'm not an expert on this, but I would be amazed if we could palpate a clot dislodging! Muscle twitch is one thing, but blood clots are not large and move slowly.

But I cannot stress this enough -- if you have ANY reason to suspect that there is an issue of clots, is there a reason you are not checking this out with her MD? Varicosity is such an individual situation that if you are unsure, I would recommend getting her permission to chat w/her doc -- it sounds like at least one of the 2 is under a doctor's care. Again, it sounds like you are doing very gentle work, but with something that is usually such a clear c/i I really recommend you at least CYA and at best get a consult.

Also -- are you working with intent to affect the varicosities, or just on the muscle tissue and trying to avoid the VVs? I'm assuming/hoping it's the latter . . . Be very careful what you chart in this situation -- you do NOT want to be interpreted as attempting to make changes in the veins themselves.

I'm not trying to do anything to the veins themselves...but when she came to me, and I saw on her med history she had checked vericose veins, I asked her to show me and they are raised, dark purple, and almost cover her entire leg from knee to ankle. I told her I couldn't massage her lower leg due to the veins because it was contraindicated for massage. She was disappointed because her leg hurts daily. She is an RN and told me along with working long shifts, she also runs 6 miles a day. I then told her I could hold her leg very lightly, but that was all. I figured if she was doing that much, that what I did wouldn't hurt. Now I'm wondering. I will check into getting an ok from her doctor though. I'll feel alot better about it then. And thanks....

 

[just-another]

It's always interesting what shows up on the table, isn't it?

I'm not one to freak out about things or to assume that something is a c/i just because I'm not familiar with it. But in a case that visible I know I would at least feel cautious and want more info because I've not seen a case so severe. Makes me wish I were in daily contact with a 30-year practitioner . . . I'll be so interested to hear how this continues.

 

[sipadan]

It's always interesting what shows up on the table, isn't it?

I'm not one to freak out about things or to assume that something is a c/i just because I'm not familiar with it. But in a case that visible I know I would at least feel cautious and want more info because I've not seen a case so severe. Makes me wish I were in daily contact with a 30-year practitioner . . . I'll be so interested to hear how this continues.

That's why I'm so glad a friend of mine directed me here. When you are fresh out of school you feel so...not ready and unsure...and who can you ask? I am gaining confidence, gaining more hand strength and knowledge everyday, but it's not taken me long to discover, that the more I learn, the more there is to learn...

 

[Fran]

I've had one client over the years with major varicose veins,
who finally had them taken care of, and the improvement was incredible. His legs looked so good afterwards that I told him he should go ahead and start wearing shorts again to show them off ! Before he had them done, I was only doing extremely light massage over both legs to include them in a session, but I always did Jin Shin Jyutsu energywork as well and it seemed to help him. Though I never did photos of his legs, I did see improvement in their appearance over time, prior to his getting medical treatment for them.

Its surprising that as an RN your client hasn't chosen the medical route to address the issue and have them taken of. She could at least see a herbalist who could give her a formula which would help improve her overall circulation and assist in helping with any leg pain/cramping or restlessness she may be experiencing. She should also be wearing some form of support hose for work, since nurses often have long hours on their feet (let alone whatever effects she may have from running).

I'd definitely want to have her see her physician to have the veins evaluated and find out what options she may want to consider, as these conditions are likely to progress over time.

 

[dark bubble]

LOL - when you hold the foot or ankle or leg very gently and feel it move beneath your hand(s), chances are you are doing Myofascial release and releasing restrictions. As long as

Well done!

 

[lover]

I've had one client over the years with major varicose veins,
who finally had them taken care of, and the improvement was incredible. His legs looked so good afterwards that I told him he should go ahead and start wearing shorts again to show them off ! Before he had them done, I was only doing extremely light massage over both legs to include them in a session, but I always did Jin Shin Jyutsu energywork as well and it seemed to help him. Though I never did photos of his legs, I did see improvement in their appearance over time, prior to his getting medical treatment for them.

Its surprising that as an RN your client hasn't chosen the medical route to address the issue and have them taken of. She could at least see a herbalist who could give her a formula which would help improve her overall circulation and assist in helping with any leg pain/cramping or restlessness she may be experiencing. She should also be wearing some form of support hose for work, since nurses often have long hours on their feet (let alone whatever effects she may have from running).

I'd definitely want to have her see her physician to have the veins evaluated and find out what options she may want to consider, as these conditions are likely to progress over time.

Thanks for the info. I'm definately going to recommend she speak with her doctor about it.

 

[amarugian]

LOL - when you hold the foot or ankle or leg very gently and feel it move beneath your hand(s), chances are you are doing Myofascial release and releasing restrictions. As long as

Well done!

Thanks! What were you going to say after "as long as"... We covered the basics only of MFR in school and the only movement I remember feeling there was a slight shifting... this feels more like an automatic twitch response...a very powerful one. I definately am very interested in learning more about MFR though. I'm having a hard time deciding which CEU study to buy first. I'm leaning towards Lymphatic Drainage too. Decisions, decisions...